He may be a dick, but I don’t remember him being particularly insufferable when he was here. So he makes a living exposing TTATT, I hope he continues doing so for many years to come. His web site and UTube channel played a huge role in waking my born-in niece after over five decades of Watchtower indoctrination, and that’s something this site can no longer do. I agree with him, I couldn’t recommend this site to newly awakening dubs, it no longer does what it says on the tin.
Ultimate Axiom
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Axiom
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Why did Lloyd Evans say in one of his latest video
by mickbobcat inso i was watching an evans video he just put out where he was interviewing a man about how the cult treated his daughter who was rapped as a criminal.
the man said his wife's first experience with an apostate site was here.
i could tell by the look on his face he did not like that site and then could not help himself and said that he could not recommend going to this site.
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Research question
by JeffT ini'm doing a little background research for a novel.
what is the craziest thing you heard a witness say was demonized, and what did they do about it?.
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Ultimate Axiom
Not exactly demon possession JeffT, but back in the 80s a sister who had watched an episode of the late Paul Daniels magic show told me a week or so later that, "There was no way he could have done that trick without the help of the demons. Absolutely no way". I hadn't seen the show so I couldn't possibly comment!
In our congo in London there was only one sister who attributed virtually every mishap to the demons, the rest of us would find more rational explanations and hardly ever brought the subject up. That was back in the 70s and 80's so a lot could have changed since then.
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Sincere Jehovah’s Witnesses vs. Insincere Jehovah’s Witnesses
by minimus inas far as i know, sincere jws are always welcomed here.
even though this site is not pro jw , if someone wants to ask a question or try to understand a point of view, there are many here who over the years have tried to help sincere witnesses.
if i believe someone is here just trying to push buttons, i will either ignore them or actually question their motives.
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Ultimate Axiom
There is also a third group – the deluded. Those who believe they are some kind of modern day prophet, and they come here to spout their visions hoping someone will listen. Although this group is not limited to Jehovah’s Witnesses, those that come here are, or were. This group have a genuine delusion, a genuine mental health problem, but feel free to tell them to fuck off if you want. I believe that’s standard practice for such people on this forum.
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Jehovah's Witnesses are a breakaway
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inlet me follow the trial.
in 1931 rutherford started jehovah's witnesses.
be before that.. bible student and they merged before 1917 with russelites and they merge with adventists, and then miller in 1844.before that be disperse into baptist and other denominations.
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Ultimate Axiom
A breakaway, or a takeover? Whenever the question arises as to who founded Jehovah’s Witnesses, I always answer Rutherford, not Russell. Russell founded the Watchtower and the IBSA (and a few other entities), and after he died Rutherford hijacked the lot. Once full autocratic control was established, and most links to the past were either modified or cut, he changed the name and the religion of JWs was born.
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Is old Watchtower literature being preserved by any particular entity?
by Etude ini read a recent post from mickbobcat about how expensive some of the old watchtower literature for sale is.
is there a group or entity that is working to digitize or somehow preserve the old literature, giving others the ability to research them?.
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Ultimate Axiom
There are quite a few sites storing old WT publications. Those that I have found the most comprehensive are;
https://archive.org/download/WatchtowerLibrary/
http://www.watchtowerwayback.org/en/static1/library -
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When You Were A Witness Did You Believe Everything Taught?
by minimus inobviously at some point you stopped believing the witnesses had the truth or else you wouldn’t be here.
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but for the most part, were you a true believer or were you typically a rebel or a doubter?
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Ultimate Axiom
I was a convert at 16, and believed it completely. Within a year I had left school, got baptised, started pioneering, become a typical SR jerk thinking that those who went into full time jobs after leaving school were hypocrites. This was 1969/70, so if you were around at that time you might understand.
Having said that, I don’t think many of us actually believed all of the stuff in the books about Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation. We “accepted” it not because it made sense, but because of all the other stuff the WT taught, and we knew that some of it would change anyway, and took the view that all would be revealed after Armageddon.
My first doubts about the WTS started creeping in when I discovered that a huge percentage of witnesses in Africa were in Nigeria, and I thought, what about the rest of Africa, so I started to investigate further. When I discovered that less than 1% of JWs were covering 50% of the world’s population I realised something was wrong, and not just with the Watchtower. The evil in the world that had been going on for thousands of years made me realise there was also something wrong with God (I had had a somewhat sheltered childhood). It took three or four years for me to go from PIMO to POMO, but by 1980 I was out. -
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What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?
by Ultimate Axiom inthe youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.
although i was only six years of age…”.
i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.
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Ultimate Axiom
I have not yet come across an example of anyone under six being baptised, but I have found a couple examples of seven year olds, and another six year old. I have also come across scores of examples of 8 and 9 year old children being baptised, and literally hundreds of examples of 10-15 year olds.
“In 1934, Mom and Dad were baptized. I too wanted to get baptized, and I kept insisting until Mother asked an older Witness to talk with me about it. He asked many questions in a manner that I could understand. Then he told my parents that I should not be prevented from being baptized; it might harm my spiritual growth. So I was baptized the following summer, when I was still six. (WT Aug 1, 1996, p21)”
“Reared in such a spiritually rich environment, I made my dedication to God and was baptized before my eighth birthday. (WT Oct 1, 2000, p28)”
“In September 1938, my parents were baptized. My siblings and I were baptized in December 1941 at a national convention held at Hargreave Park in Sydney, New South Wales. I was seven years old. (WT Oct 1 2006, p12)”
I particularly like the reasoning of the “elder” in the six year old’s case – “it might harm her spiritual development if you don’t allow her to get baptised”. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. And while this happened nearly a century ago, it is quoted here with approval in 1996, showing that they would do the same again today if the occasion arose. Indeed they have done so, as shown in R&R’s example earlier in this thread.
The Watchtower makes a lot of noise about the unscriptural and illogical practice of infant baptism, but they clearly ignore the concept of “age of consent” in this matter. It shows something of their ingrained hypocrisy, when they can say the following, while continuing to baptise children, I mean, who on earth would consider a six year old to be anything other than a "small child"?:
“Jesus’ words at Matthew 28:19, 20 show that it is those who have been made his disciples that should be baptized. Hence, it follows that no infant or small child could meet the Scriptural requirements for baptism.” (WT March 15 1988, p14)” -
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What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?
by Ultimate Axiom inthe youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.
although i was only six years of age…”.
i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.
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Ultimate Axiom
Came across this today, it’s from Consolation, December 23, 1942, page 13. While it’s not conclusive proof that the WTS have baptised children younger than 6, more than three of these would appear to be so.
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What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?
by Ultimate Axiom inthe youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.
although i was only six years of age…”.
i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.
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Ultimate Axiom
Thanks for those R&R, much appreciated.
Minimus - very interesting and revealing experience. I wonder if the WTS fully realize the implications of baptising children. In their GT scenario, suppose a congregation was left with a couple of dozen sisters, half a dozen unbaptised, but adult males, and one baptised six year old boy. How that would work?
Anyone any other examples of six and seven year olds being baptised, or experiences of their own being baptised as a pre-teen?
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What is the youngest a child has been baptised as a JW?
by Ultimate Axiom inthe youngest reference i have come across is in the 1992 watchtower (march 1st page 27) - “in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.
although i was only six years of age…”.
i would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times.
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Ultimate Axiom
The youngest reference I have come across is in the 1992 Watchtower (March 1st page 27) - “In the summer of 1946, I was baptized at the international convention in Cleveland, Ohio. Although I was only six years of age…”
I would like to find more examples of this, particularly of examples in more recent times. If anyone has similar cases of any pre-teen baptisms I would be grateful to hear them, preferably from WT literature itself rather than outside sources.